Ghosting in LeiaTube version 2.1.10

I am getting alot of ghosting around thing’s while viewing YouTube videos on the new device, you do not get this on the original Lumepad.
Also on the new device the ghosting comes and goes throughout the video, some times no ghosting ,then next moment there is ghosting around an object,the ghosting comes and goes.

On the original Lumepad it stay with out ghosting throughout the YouTube video.

The ghosting on the new device is most visible around small objects, and around edges of objects near the edge of screen, it really spoils the 3D effect. The original Lumepad doesn’t have this problem. If you put the new device and the original Lumepad next to each other and run the same YouTube videos, you can clearly see the ghosting coming and going on the new device, while the original Lumepad does not show the ghosting problem. Please can this be resolved

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That might be ghosting, but it can also be artifacts from the 3D conversion. Particularly since you mention the sides of the screen, cause this is where there is no data from the image, so the player fills it in with a sort of duplicated flipped pixels from the side and it looks off. You should try some images on LeiaPix (especially the ones taking with the Lume Pad 2 or pro cameras) as that more accurately shows the best quality. That said, I have noticed ghosting on contrasting colors (usually black on white or vice versa) and there is not too much you can do about this. With more varied colors or subtle color changes, there is not much ghosting.

Hi thanks for the response, but the AI convertion on the original Lume pad does not show this ghosting effect, I have the original Lumepad and the new device, if you run the same YouTube video on both the new device has ghosting and the original Lume pad does not.
I tried an experiment to see if I could change the way face tracking was working and get rid of the ghosting on the new device and it worked so the new device looked as free from ghosting as the original Lumepad when viewing you tube videos.
If you simply take a some white paper and move it around your face you can see the ghosting change on the screen of the new device, and if you get the paper in the correct possition the ghosting goes, but you will have to experiments with different shapes and sizes of paper, but you can make the new device display like the original Lumepad with out ghosting.
Also on the new device you need to reduce the depth a bit.
The ghosting problem with the new device can be resolved.
I feel the face tracking system along with the displayconfig system my need to learn the user face to get the most accurate screen display with out artifacts and ghosting.
I hope Leia try this as it works

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Yeah, I see what you’re saying. I have noticed that before, but it usually only happens briefly or if I move my head too fast. I have noticed that the eye tracking is sensitive to things, like the lighting in the room (too bright or too dark can make a difference) and also if you wear glasses too. I have two glasses and one of them works better than the other. All that said, I don’t believe it’s a problem with the screen. Yes, there is some ghosting, but it’s minor IMO. The issue is with the eye tracking and hopefully it can be updated in software.

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Hi great thanks for your response
Yes I feel eye tracking is the problem not the screen.
Yes lighting is a factor and wearing glasses too.
The experiment showed, this problem can be resolved.

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I knew it was an issue with the tablet, i also own the first lumepad and dont have as many problems like on the lumepad 2, the software needs improvment all around ex. The andriod experience is kind of buggy sometimes it freezes and when i updated the mozaik app on the leia appstore it would constantly say downloading then complete and download again multiple times. I did a factory reset and did not update the apps yet and let the tablet update apps on its own to see if it fixes the problem. I haven’t tried opening the app yet or updating from store.

Hi thanks for the response, I have been viewing two YouTube 4K videos.
Using the paper trick and sitting in the middle of the screen and a couple of feet from the screen , I did not get any ghosting, if I removed the paper from my face the ghosting came back, when I put back the paper covering part of my face the ghosting vanished.
In my case the paper covered the bottom of my nose and across my mouth.
When you get the paper position correct you see the screen click in to place and all ghosting goes, just perfect. I also reduce depth to a quarter down from half. I hope Leia try this as it shows the ghosting can be got ride of.
As I was tricking the Face Tracking with the paper

I definitely see more ghosting on Lume Pad 2 than on the original Lume Pad, and I see it on ordinary stereo pairs (side-by-side 2x1). Overall, I like LP2 better, but I suspect the new display technology is simply more susceptible to ghosting in high-contrast areas than LP1. In images with lower contrast, ghosting is not objectionable.

The new device can show ghost free YouTube video , the paper trick shows that. Face tracking can be ticked to give a ghost free video. I think if the face tracking could learn it’s user face the ghosting problem would be resoved

Hey Roger,

When you “do the paper trick”, Leia FaceTracking can’t find a face, and the device is switching to 2D mode. There will of course be no ghosting or cross-talk in 2D mode.

Issues with cross-talk are due to scenes with high contrast and high disparity, or issues with convergence.

We have a known bug with convergence that affects all sorts of media in all our apps. This will be fixed with coming app updates.

Unfortunately, cross-talk is an issue with all autostereoscopic displays. Passive lightfield displays like the older Lume Pad were able to use computer vision to decrease the depth and align the views and compute anti-cross-talk in a way that was superior to almost all other devices. But the downside was that it was lower resolution. Lume Pad 2 is much sharper, and has a wider FOV, and can show much more depth, but if you have high-contrast and high-disparity, you will see crosstalk especially when black is being rendered on screen.

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Hi
Thank you for your responce
Yes the display is very good, bright, sharp and better resultion than the original LumePad

Yes I can move the paper so the screen switches to 2D, but in the position I had the paper the video still looks as if it is in 3D and if I move the paper abit you see ghosting start to increase , you can make the ghosting appear more on the right or left of an object by moving the paper one way or the other.
The green dot is seen at the top left when in 3D
I have just run the paper trick again and yes it is totally true the paper can cause the face tracking to switch to 2D
I have observered that the paper does reduce effect the ghosting.
The biggest effect on reducing the ghosting is to turn down the depth slider, this still gives you great 3D and greatly reduced ghosting.
I still feel the face tracking system could be improved to reduce the ghosting alot

No, the green dot appears whenever Leia FaceTracking is running. It will still show if the display switches to 2D because a face cannot be found, because Leia FaceTracking is still running and looking for a face.

I have just tried this myself at your request and all I have seen it do is negatively impact the face tracking. Yes, if Leia FaceTracking is tracking incorrectly you may see reduced cross-talk, but you’ll also see incorrect 3D and much reduced depth.

The trick to eliminating cross-talk is to create and view content that uses low contrast, bright colors, little or no pure blacks and pure whites, perfect convergence, and optimized disparity. Wreck-It Ralph and various other Pixar and animated movies are examples of 3D movie content that looks flawless on the display. Movies or games with lots of dark content and shadows will show more cross-talk.

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I’m not sure if what I saw was the same issue you two are talking about. But there are times when there is slight flickering cross-talk that appears briefly and then disappears (maybe depending on head movement). I know it is not the display, because it quickly goes away and it was in 3D the whole time. It’s most noticeable when there is large disparity between left/right but it’s clearly something active (either with eye tracking or the display) since it is variable and can go away.

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What you’re describing @cybereality sounds like jitter in the Leia FaceTracking service. If you’re in a low-light setting, wear reflective glasses, a face mask, or anything else that makes it difficult for Leia FaceTracking to identify a face, you can encounter this jitter.

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That makes sense. I haven’t seen that happen recently, it’s rare, but I did notice it when I started using the tablet more. Not a huge deal, but it does break the immersion when it happens.

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I would like to thank everyone for there interest in the problem and hope ghosting problem can be resolved with a software update

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Thanks for this new information, Nima. Now I see why the original Lume Pad sometimes displayed the zero-disparity plane out in FRONT of the screen. It was changing the convergence to reduce the disparity of distant objects.

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Thanks for the information.

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I have been wondering if long term it is technically possible to do two things.

  1. Have a depth adjustment feature just like the Lume Pad 2 and the original Lume Pad in LeiaTube, but with two separate adjustment options. One to add or decrease depth, and the other to align the image manually to minimize crosstalk at whatever depth level you have chosen. Currently both happen at the same time, so when you increase depth, you most of the time also increase crosstalk

  2. Just keep a single depth slider, but have AI do more work at calculating how close the two images should be together at each level of depth so that you have less or zero crosstalk across all depth levels for each frame. I think this second option would require even more computing power to do in real time, but I would like to know whether or not this is even physically possible with the structure of the Lume Pad 2’s display and how it works.

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Hi I have the new device and the original Lumepad and have been running them along side each other to compare the ghosting/ XTalk.
The original Lumepad does not have face traking so I can sit at the correct optimal position and distance from the screen to give a ghost/XTalk free video or picture.
I cannot do this with the new device and it seems the face tracking cannot get it’s optimal screen for me.
Face tracking works well, but I wish I have the option to enable or disable it and be able like with the original lumepad site myself in the optimal possition.
On the new device I get the same ghosting/talk,in photos as I do with the video.
Reducing the depth down on video’s reduces the ghosting/XTalk alot.
With photos, the original Lumepad had lots of pictures edit tools like depth, focus, bokah brightness, contrast, saturation, color pop, hue, filters and relighting this did give you lots of ways to alter the picture. Also tap to expand and pinch to zoom.
The new device in picture edit gives you focus which does work to reduce problems in the picture but I really miss the other options and features found in the original Lumepad picture editing and manipulation.

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